Japanese Language Help...

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Postby Aka-chan » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:49 am

OtakuX wrote:Otaku no baka ja nai

"ja nai" is a less formal form of "de wa nai" or "de wa arimasen". So the speaker, were one to be literal, is saying" I'm not an idiot otaku." Depending on the tone of voice, though (and this shows up predominatly in conversational Japanese--not formal) actually makes it an emphatic agreement with the statement preceding the "ja nai". So it may mean something like "Isn't he such an idiot otaku!" I'd have to see the situation and here it spoken...
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:11 am

This may be a bit presumptuous of me but I've been learning the Katakana alphabet and I've been doing some practice with it. Certain Japanese words that I know I've been attempting to write them in Katakana and the attached image is the result. I figure that it's probably wrong even though I think it's just a matter of using the letters to form the word but even if I am wrong it is a good exercise for me. ^_^

http://www.deviantart.com/view/34461270/
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Postby Myoti » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:43 am

Okay, I just recalled another one:

When is the article (is that the right word?) "na" suppose to be used? From where I've seen it, it seems like it has a similar meaning to "no," but... for different kind of nouns or something? O_o
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Postby Aka-chan » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:40 pm

Good practice, Cuddles! Keep it up! Do you want corrections? (It is, overall, quite correct and looks REALLY good, but there are one or two that are a little off.)

Okay, "na" is much like "no" but you pretty much just use it with adjectives that don't end with an "i" (there are a few "i" adjectives that are exceptions--"kirei", pretty, comes to mind). It just connects the adjective and whatever it's describing. "Rippa na egao" (a fantastic smile) or "Iya na no wo suteta" (I threw away the ones I didn't like.)
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:57 am

Aka-chan: Yes please, I would sooo love corrections and would appreciate your assitance in any way possible. I want to get the Katakana down 100% before I move on to Hiragana.
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Postby Myoti » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:28 am

Okay, "na" is much like "no" but you pretty much just use it with adjectives that don't end with an "i" (there are a few "i" adjectives that are exceptions--"kirei", pretty, comes to mind). It just connects the adjective and whatever it's describing. "Rippa na egao" (a fantastic smile) or "Iya na no wo suteta" (I threw away the ones I didn't like.)

Ah, I see now. Arigatou.

I want to get the Katakana down 100% before I move on to Hiragana.

Nani? You did Katakana first? O_o
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:50 pm

You should learn hiragana first. Katakana is only used for foreign loan words or for exclamation, so it's not used much.

Hiragana is used for writing 99% of the written Japanese language itself, (excluding Kanji) thus making it the more essential system to learn first.
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Postby Myoti » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 pm

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I still need more practice on Katakana. I know it, but I can't recognize/remember it as well as hiragana yet...
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Postby Neko Niisan » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:17 am

Aka-chan wrote:"ja nai" is a less formal form of "de wa nai" or "de wa arimasen". So the speaker, were one to be literal, is saying" I'm not an idiot otaku." Depending on the tone of voice, though (and this shows up predominatly in conversational Japanese--not formal) actually makes it an emphatic agreement with the statement preceding the "ja nai". So it may mean something like "Isn't he such an idiot otaku!" I'd have to see the situation and here it spoken...


Ta much! (Situation here if your interested...)
Will insert something intelligent here later... maybe

Where I doth lurk:
[MySpace][Facebook][DeviantART][No I have no life]
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:40 am

Myoti wrote:Yeah, that's what I thought.

I still need more practice on Katakana. I know it, but I can't recognize/remember it as well as hiragana yet...


It takes a while to get used to katakana, since it's not used as often.

Try this book:
Remembering the Kana by James Heisig.

He provides a great method which makes the characters a lot easier to remember.

You could also try making flash cards of katakana words and drilling them, which is actually more efficient than drilling the single characters themselves.

If you were a member of Yes Japan, they have some great practice games...
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Postby Myoti » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:03 pm

Well, it's only a couple. I KNOW all of them, I'm just still trying to work on them, that's all. =p
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:43 am

What?! Hiragana is easier to remember than Katakana? Somehow I don't think so...maybe I'm just weird, lol. But I'm actually playing Knuckles in Chinaland and they went through Katakana first that's why it's the only alphabet I know so far and I didn't want to move on to the next one 'Which happens to be Hiragana' until I learned Katakana completely.
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Postby Aka-chan » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:36 am

One generally learns hiragana first, but with Japanese being like it is today with all the gairaigo (foreign loan words), I find you become equally proficient in both hiragana and katakana. I don't think it matters too much.

Unfortunately, I'm currently traveling, so my internet it slow and sporadic. I'll try to keep up with answering questions. Images take forever to load, though, so I'll have to post katakana corrections later and check out the "ja nai" situation, too. Gomen ne, Cuddles and OtakuX.
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:18 pm

But...doesn't Hiragana actually have like 100= characters in the alphabet? ;_; I'm very intimidated. I have a bad memory too, lol.

Take your time Aka-chan, enjoy your trip!
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Postby Aka-chan » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:09 pm

Hiragana corresponds exactly with katakana; both are phonetic, they just use different symbols for the same sounds. And many of them look surprisingly similar (there are reasons for that, but I will spare you the character etymologies.) If you've breezed through katakana the way it sounds you have, hiragana should give you no trouble.

Kanji, on the other hand, has several thousand characters. =P
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:56 pm

Hiragana and Katakana both have the exact same character count each. (Around 100).

Niether one is neccesarily easier than the other, depends on you.

Hiragana is typically learned first, because it is more neccesary.

Learning Katakana alone will only give you the ability to read 5% of the language or less.

For example: This is how you would see a kana only sentece:

わたしのなまえはクリス。 きみは?

As you can see, while katakana is ultimately neccesary, it doesn't do you much good at all to learn it first.
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Postby Myoti » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:33 am

わたしのなまえはクリス。 きみは?

Watashi no namae wa Burado. o.o/

Dang, I need to get that kana program (when I get the new computer; putting it on this one would kill it...).


And I believe there's 71 hiragana/katakana (each):
-Vowel line (5)
-K line (10 counting 'G')
-T line (10 counting 'D')
-S line (10 counting 'Z')
-H line (15 counting 'B' and 'P')
-N line (5)
-M line (5)
-R line (5)
-Y line (3)
-W line (2)
-'N'
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:40 am

Ohhh, okay. Well I need to keep practising then ^_^
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:48 am

Myoti wrote:Watashi no namae wa Burado. o.o/
よろしくお願いします。 俺クリス。CAAは凄いね。
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Postby Myoti » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:04 pm

ACK11!!11!1

Don't attack me with kanji yet! /x.x\
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:37 pm

Myoti wrote:ACK11!!11!1

Don't attack me with kanji yet! /x.x\
死ぬ、外人!

ハーハーハーハーハーハー!
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:54 pm

Umm...

ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi !
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Postby Myoti » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:59 pm

死ぬ、外人!

ハーハーハーハーハーハー!

Stop laughing... kisama aho desu. >_>

(Why are the insults always so easy to learn...?)


ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi ha ichi !

When using katakana, the line (what looks like "ichi") is meant to extend the last sound.
I.E.:

Wa N Pi- Su

Would be: Wan Piisu.

*waits to see who knows what I'm referencing... Xp*
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:40 am

Ohh, thanks for pointing that out. And are you referencing One Piece?
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Postby Myoti » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:19 pm

Hai. That I am. And you're welcome. =D
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:33 pm

Okies! ^_^

By the way, would you happen to know what Batteyo means. I hear Naruto say it all the time and some fans say he's saying 'Believe it' but other fans that actually speak Japanese says he's not saying 'Believe it' but it's just 'something he says'.

Could he be saying it like a slang term like 'you know' or 'like'? You know, like how some people talk...you know...like me?

Anyway he says it like every 5 minutes and it's driving me crazy, it's been on my mind the WHOLE day. I MUST know what it means...I MUST!


By the way, your umm...thing under your avatar, 'So HIP to be "Square!" What does referenceing someone to a square mean? I heard it means they are a nerd.
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Postby Myoti » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:09 pm

"Dattebyo," you mean? o.O
From my understanding, yes, it actually means "Believe it," so all those fans complaining about don't know what they're talking about. Xp

By the way, your umm...thing under your avatar, 'So HIP to be "Square!" What does referenceing someone to a square mean? I heard it means they are a nerd.

Yes, it does. I was using that as a joke for what's in my avatar (the square giraffe guy; loooooong story XD ).
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Postby Cuddles da Bear » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:14 pm

Riiight Dattebyo, that's what I meant >.<

That's a giraffe?? O_O Actually, I can see it now.....scary. If the story isn't too long, maybe you'd like to share it.
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Postby Aka-chan » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:21 am

Azier the Swordsman wrote:??????

?????????????

I think you want "shine", btw, not "shinu" in the way you're using it--as an imperative. Man, if this comp had kana/kanji capabilities, I would so answer in like.

Now, now, Myoti, let us speak kindly to one another, even in Japanese. =P (Nah, the insults are the most fun--and the easiest to learn, as you said! XD)

As for "dattebayo", I've never run into it outside of Naruto, but as far as I can tell, it's mostly an emphatic that he uses a lot to highlight what he's saying. "Believe it" does basically the same thing, but is not a literal translation (I don't think there is one.) I've looked at a number of translations for Naruto, and "believe it" never showed up before the dub, so I'm inclined to say it's just the way the dubbers translated the spirit of the pattern, not it's literal meaning. In a way, "believe it" kind of works because it's unusual to hear (especially tacked on to every sentence) and ends up sounding a little strange and somewhat awkward.
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Postby Myoti » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:37 am

Now, now, Myoti, let us speak kindly to one another, even in Japanese. =P (Nah, the insults are the most fun--and the easiest to learn, as you said! XD)

Ha, gomen. It's just too much fun. XD


About "Dattebyo":
What I've really heard is that the later part ("-ttebyo") is suppose to be closely resemble "believe it" or such (or the "spirit" of it, as you said), but the word itself is just made-up gibberish in itself. :p
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