TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386551) wrote:Also, in the way of constructive criticism: is therte a way to edit out all the awkward pauses, silences and "...yeeeaaaahhh..."'s? I think that would help the show.
I am glad it's doing well. I wasn't referring to merchandise located inside the show (TIAF was just the pretext for the staff being in Tokyo). I meant that there was no merch in the entire city. No Baccano! or Durarara!! merchandise was found over the course of 8 days stay in Shibuya and scouring every shop (even in Akihaburo). Not a good sign for the "most successful show" of 2010 =(.blkmage (post: 1386560) wrote:Durarara!! is probably not the best example to use, since it's relatively new, TIAF is a trade show, it's not as easily "merchandisable" (figures, character songs, etc.) and it's the most successful show this year so far.
I don't disagree with this at all. In fact, this is the ideal scenario that we all ought to wish for. However, as you know, the market is in such a dire state that I'd welcome anything that would help. And, not only was I trying to say that it would be a good thing, contra the opinion of the panel, but that a successful, non-sucky American live-action adaptation is possible in principle, also contra the panel.But, if anime and manga and the like are going to gain broader appeal, it won't be because of live-action films. It will and needs to do so on the particular strengths that are unique to its medium.
TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386551) wrote:
A second point: I think having a rated-R anime adaptation would be a good thing. First of all, it avoids Kitsune's doomsday scenario of America embracing the Pikachu beanie. An FMA movie would not be marketed like that. I mean, people are always complaining about the convention scene and the teenage anime crowd. A good movie adaptation of FMA, Cowboy Bebop or Baccano! that happened to be rated-R would spark a community with a completely different vibe. You could potentially have an intelligent discussion with a co-wroker about FMA.
mechana2015 (post: 1386581) wrote:I guess I was thinking that melting a ten year olds arm off and completely vaporizing an eight or nine year old on screen might make the MPAA a bit antsy and give it an NC-17.
TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386551) wrote:The panel also seemed to agree that this would be a bad thing because anime is "cooler" because so few people are into it. Considering the state of the anime market (here and in Japan)I believe that this way of thinking is fundamentally misguided, Let's go with the idea that the less people like anime, the cooler it is: if anime gets any cooler, it will die. The reason we have so many moe shows (and other otaku-pandering shows) is because they are safe: the Japanese feel like they can sell just enough to make do. Many are scared to attempt a project with a broader appeal because it might lose money. For example: as great as Durarara!! is, acording to ANN, who recently went to Tokyo to cover the Anime Fair, there was not one single scrap of Durarara!! merchandise. So, I believe we should want anime to garner as many fans as possible.
An example of this working would be Kill Bill and The Matrix. While it didn't work as well as a full adaptation could have, it did open people to anime more.TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386551) wrote:
A second point: I think having a rated-R anime adaptation would be a good thing. First of all, it avoids Kitsune's doomsday scenario of America embracing the Pikachu beanie. An FMA movie would not be marketed like that. I mean, people are always complaining about the convention scene and the teenage anime crowd. A good movie adaptation of FMA, Cowboy Bebop or Baccano! that happened to be rated-R would spark a community with a completely different vibe. You could potentially have an intelligent discussion with a co-wroker about FMA.
TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386551) wrote:I agree with you all about the Japanese comedy not translating well. But this is to be expected. Of course, film-makers would have to take the spirit of the comedy and do their own thing with it. I see nothing wrong with a movie adaptation adapting the comedic elements to our own culture. It just has to happen that way for the adaptation to sell well.
Alright, then we actually are in agreement here. I am no champion of anime being socially acceptable just so that something I enjoy will be popular. The main reason that I think an adaptation might do some good is because of the money it could make from itself and the newly sought-after source material. I just want our hobby to be well-funded. I don't want it to go away, man!Fish and Chips (post: 1386604) wrote:If I somehow communicated that Anime culture is somehow "Better" being underground, I apologize. I don't think that, and would very much enjoy for Anime and Manga to receive a boost in popularity. However, our criticism was that the sort of people who champion these sorts of adaptions are the ones who want for it to instantly become socially acceptable overnight, which isn't something I think would be plausible or a good idea. If we want to set Anime in a more pervasive light, I think it should be on the strengths of the medium itself set in its own medium, not an adaption to another format.
You are preaching to the choir, bub. See my Kiss x Sis reference above. *shudder* But with more and more interest, surely people will be more discerning because they will actually have to learn about it. I think that maybe people paint with such a broad brush just because they don't have to take seriously/learn about this little niche weird cultural item.We rally against the underground, except that we fail to pick up on the idea that its because we're underground that affords us a degree of protection from scrutiny, scrutiny that could actually damage the image of Anime considerably. We facepalm at the thought of people dismissing all Anime as pornography, when really we should be thankful that's where their attention ends. If they knew what was really out there, the brush people already paint broadly with when it comes to Anime would be tinted an even darker color. A female reporter on CNN recently flipped out after discovering a commercially available "Rape fantasy" game on store shelves]four years ago[/I] on another board. Reporters are supposed to deliver the latest news to the general public; if this is the latest of news, I shudder to think of a more up-to-date following of the excesses of Japanese culture.
There are roughly 300,000 Japanese people who buy most of the moe, otaku-pandering shows as they come out. Because of the fact that most TV shows start in the red (from buying the TV time), they need these kinds of numbers in (friggan expensive) DVD sales to sustain the studios. This is the explanation for the massive spike in moe in the last few years. It is safe.As for the safe Otaku market, the prosperity of Anime and Manga in Japan is little dependent on its success abroad, but that's Blkmage's territory. Talk to him about it. He has graphs, even.
So you're saying that movies based on kids comics wouldn't sell? You're point about PG-13 vs. R is well-taken, though. And of course you don't make the whole FMA series in one shot (tho I think you could swing a one-shot Baccano! movie), but you make one story and then see how sales go.The problem with movie ratings is that they automatically narrow your audience. Yes, there are a lot of good movies that are also R rated, just as there are a lot of terrible movies that somehow scraped by with a PG13, but the PG13 is more immediately acceptable and accessible to the public eye. "Based on a Japanese comic your kid reads, rated R" is not a very appealing tag line. And if they're going to water it down for a better rating, who knows what else they might have to cut. FullMetal Alchemist is 25+ volumes long. How would you propose they shorten it to the measly maybe three hours people might be willing to spend in an evening at the movie theater? This is assuming they can already somehow stylistically gloss over the fact that two twelve-year-olds are seriously attempting to bring someone back from the dead to horrifying consequences, then market it to a wide enough audience to receive acceptance.
As I said to blkmage, I agree here. The scenario of anime becoming popular on its own merits is, of course, the ideal situation. I was just struck by the fact that the panel was so seemingly antagonistic towards even the possibility of this kind of thing. I think it could work, and, if it did, that would be good for everyone.Anime being popular would be nice, but we should work intelligently towards this goal, not impulsively. Teach someone how to swim and they'll cross the sea on their own; throw them in the ocean and they'll drown.
That's not a bad sentiment to have, I suppose. Most likely, however, the profits from a well-received film adaption would go on to directly benefit the filmmakers, not the Anime and Manga industry, or at least certainly not the foreign distributors. It's possible film buzz could generate temporary interest in the specific work being adapted, but such things tend to be very short-lived by definition.TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386612) wrote:Alright, then we actually are in agreement here. I am no champion of anime being socially acceptable just so that something I enjoy will be popular. The main reason that I think an adaptation might do some good is because of the money it could make from itself and the newly sought-after source material. I just want our hobby to be well-funded. I don't want it to go away, man!
I am already well aware of how the market panders and why it is successful. The problem is critical acclaim outside that comfortable niche will not suddenly make it not safe to produce shows for that demographic. Mainstream success is not something that every show that tries to be different, innovative, or better than its fellow entertainment can achieve, and I think most studios would have a solid grasp of this. At best, we'd have a temporary resurgence of shows outside the Otaku demographic, the majority of which would be varying degrees of shallow and uninspired drivel riding the coattails of already proved popular concepts, and subsequently returning to their familiar grounds after a single failure, or even after moderate but not enough success.TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386612) wrote:There are roughly 300,000 Japanese people who buy most of the moe, otaku-pandering shows as they come out. Because of the fact that most TV shows start in the red (from buying the TV time), they need these kinds of numbers in (friggan expensive) DVD sales to sustain the studios. This is the explanation for the massive spike in moe in the last few years. It is safe.
TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1386843) wrote:
Question for you Fish: What are you hoping/expecting out of the (rumored) Battle Angel movie in terms of affect on the industry?
KhakiBlueSocks wrote:"I'm going to make you a prayer request you can't refuse..." Cue the violins.![]()
mechana2015 (post: 1386859) wrote:I'm fairly sure you meant this for me,since I'm the person that's usually mentioning BAA on the show.
Boo!I expect it to fail horribly at this point, if it ever gets released at all. Last I heard, James Cameron had the data for it, but he's more focused on Avatar 2 now, since blue cat aliens are apparently made of money... so I don't expect to even see it anytime soon for starters.
That is true]My third issue with it is that I actually don't think graphics technology is up to snuff yet. BAA is Blade Runner, combined with Predator, Terminator, and Speed Racer. Making it look good enough to pass muster is going to cost a ton of money, even with virtual sets. Unlike Avatar or LOTR or any other series with lots of CGI characters, there are no 'standard production models' in the series, and probably 90% of the on screen actors would have to be totally unique CG models, almost all the time, including background characters, unless you went for a deep costuming and prosthetic budget, even if they only converted volume 1.[/quote]I actualy disagree with you here. Cameron himself has claimed that the technology is now finally up to snuff for realizing his vision. He would know (I hope).The second issue is that any adaption of GUNNM with a rating lower than R will definitely be decried by the fans of the series, and any adaption that stays accurate to it won't be palatable to anyone who can't stand AVP2 levels of violence. Basic example: The main character's first major attack she learns, and one she uses through the whole series, causes a person's brain (and head) to explode. Drop that attack, and the movie isn't really BAA, keep it, and you're looking at R for sure. In addition, adding 3D, as Cameron is wont to do would amp the effects up further. I mean, I love the series, but this is like making a live action Fist of the North Star.
Don't ever mention that sad OVA again, sir. Unacceptable =). Yeah, that almost made me refuse to read the manga.The series actually even failed as an anime, and that's the medium I could see it being able to survive in, so consider me sadly skeptical.
I defer to you here, since it has been years since I've read the books.As for it's effect on the industry, if made right, and somehow marketed well, I could see it possibly having a market, but a small one, and not benefiting the anime market at all. The series is too unique to represent the anime market as a whole, and too grimdark and violent to have a wide ranging impact, especially to the positive side. If dumbed down it could get a better response, but anyone that tried to use it as a jumping off point would probably be more than a little put off/scared by the actual comic.
TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1387015) wrote:That is true]
Could be done, but that wouldn't necessarily make it a critical success or give it a foothold in the American Cultural lexicon, but if that were the case I'd suspect that we'd need a director other than Cameron for this since he really doesn't handle things the way that Tarantino does, so as long as Cameron has it... we'll have to see. He'd have to go back to Terminator in mindset... which is possible, since he's also apparantly working on Terminator 5 (?!). I guess I'm just worried due to some rather blatant writing issues in Avatar, and Cameron being listed as the writer. BAA is very much about the story, and I'm not too keen on him messing with it.
I might also be keeping my expectations low so I can attempt to enjoy whatever does come out.TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1387015) wrote: I actually disagree with you here. Cameron himself has claimed that the technology is now finally up to snuff for realizing his vision. He would know (I hope).
I would hope so, but I'm not at all interested in seeing the darn thing in the current 3D obsession, so I'm more interested in how they're going to handle the whole cybernetics deal and all the CGI for that, and the setting, considering every single cyborg is different. Also, the last time a director said they 'had the technology', we got Jar Jar Binks... :[TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1387015) wrote:I defer to you here, since it has been years since I've read the books.
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