Regarding Chat

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Regarding Chat

Postby Furen » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:05 pm

I'd shoot Mith a PM, but I felt I'd let others comment on this

it seems when you use the /me function and end it with \0.0/ for some reason the chat crashes

it is currently the only thing we see, if we find anything more, we'll put it here

Edit: you can put the \0.#/ anywhere on the /me line and it'll crash it (Where # stands for any number you want in chat)
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Postby DaughterOfZion » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:41 pm

Okay. Now everything Furen said, with a few additions. Doing \0.4/ etc., seems to affect whispers now as well as the /chatbot function. It appears to only freeze on the two members involved in said whisper. Not only does\#.#/ cause the chat to freeze, but it appears that whole numbers freeze the chat as well. The behavior keeps changing slightly, so whole numbers may or not work, but digits with decimals definitely work. The glitch with /chatbot may possibly only happen when one user is in the chat room. My experiments with the glitch end on the chat log at 12:44 July 2nd chat time.
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Postby Nate » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:45 am

I'm no computer whiz and I'm sure Mith will answer shortly, but I'm willing to bet that the problem isn't the face itself, but rather the / character. Like, for example, try typing something like "/me thinks this is strange/disturbing" or something along those lines, and it will probably act the same way.

Of course, I can't test any of this, and you may have already tried that...but you didn't specifically say you did. :p
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Postby shooraijin » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:50 am

I smell a null terminator problem. \0 = 0x00
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Postby goldenspines » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:12 am

But...but
why are you guys making such weird emotes anyways? D:
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Postby Okami » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:55 am

It's the same with \o.o/ It'll come out as o.o/ and while not crashing the chat...obviously the two emotes have different connotations - like the first being "yay!" and the second being *wave* or "hi!"

It happens with /me (and I also think /whisper) I'm not sure on /quit, but I'd assume it also does it there, too.
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Postby blkmage » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:36 am

So it reads escaped characters? Or strips them, maybe? Maybe I should try using some newlines or something. Sure sounds like a good reason to use kaomoji though. ヽ( ゚∀゚)ノ ヽ( ゚ω゚)ノ ヽ(`▽´)ノ ヽ(´▽`)ノ
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Postby Xeno » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:15 am

I'm not sure how much work has gone into the chat or how long it's be around in it's current form. But if something like this is going to be a massive overhaul to fix it might be an idea to replace it with a java applet IRC client. Find a reliable server, one other than the big time ones (Rizon, DALnet, UnderNet, etc.), set it to invisible so random people on the server can't just find it and drop in, and continue to hide it's existence to people who aren't logged into user accounts and deny access to the link and server info until they've met the appropriate post count.

Maybe all of this is out of bounds for me to suggest; but I'm already an IRC user, and I'd actually prefer to just be able to sign into the chat from my existing IRC client rather than having to have a browser window open.

Edit: an additional thought for consideration of an IRC, or IRC like system, is the ability to appoint Operators and Half-Operators. Think of Ops as Mods and Half-Ops as pseudo-Mods (only able to set/remove bans and kick people). People could be appointed to these rolls (most likely Mith at the channel Admin, the actual Mods as Ops and a select few others as the Half-Ops) to police the channel should any issue arise. It would allow for quicker resolution than having to copy logs, PM a Mod, and then wait for a decision while a situation may continue to take place. Of course any action taken by a Half-Op would have to be backed up and supported by logs.
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Postby Wallachia » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:50 am

[quote="Xeno (post: 1488685)"]Maybe all of this is out of bounds for me to suggest]
I'm going to second everything Xeno said. I'm also somebody who uses IRC and when I clicked on the chat button for the first time, I thought it was going to be an IRC channel.
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Postby DaughterOfZion » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:17 pm

goldenspines (post: 1488663) wrote:But...but
why are you guys making such weird emotes anyways? D:


It's because it started when I put \0.0/ at the end of the emote. Furen and I were messing around trying to figure out the triggers.
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Postby Okami » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:32 pm

I'm gonna third what Xeno said. :) I used to moderate an IRC chatroom on and off for three or four years, and can attest to the fact that resolves are easier than what we're doing now! :grin:
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Postby Nate » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:09 pm

I think the reason that Mith isn't using IRC is probably because he can't tie it to the site like he can with this chat...you'd have to worry about say, legitimate members who turn troll (this has happened in the past) and post the chat info on sites so that others can raid it and whatnot. Plus can't you set your nickname to whatever you want in on IRC? That would mean people could pretend to be other users, or hide their identity if they're supposed to be banned from the chat. It just seems like it would cause all sorts of other problems. But again, I'm not Mith, so it's best if he answers this on its own. I just don't think IRC would be a cure-all for problems.
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Postby Xeno » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:10 pm

Nate does raise some very good counterpoints. I'm not understanding on the workings of IRC servers, so I don't know the kind of work that goes into the creation and/or upkeep of one for personal use for something like this, that would possibly be a password protected server, or if it would even be possible to connect forum accounts to IRC accounts. Individual members might have to register IRC server accounts, and there is no way to guarantee they would keep the exact same name, or even the same name at all, from the one they use on the forums. And then as far as people not using the chat for an extended period of time, I know that NickServ can hold registrations for certain time periods but I don't know if it's indefinite (it's never been a problem for me as I stay continually logged into IRC).

I'm glad you brought up those points Nate as it does show a definite downside to the IRC solution, though in my own personal opinion I still think I would rather use an IRC channel over the existing chat option we have, a large reason being that I tend to sign in from various places, and as such I use multiple variants of user name. If I'm logged into OS X I'm signed in as XenoMac, if I'm in a Windows system I'm XenoPC, on my iPhone I'm XenoMac, generally any other kind of client I'll use just Xeno since one of the other will already be signed in. The only time I'm disconnected from IRC is when my connection is cut or my computer is rebooting, so it' nice to have access to the various aliases. To my knowledge, our current chat solution doesn't allow multiple instances of the same person to be logged in, and it's also not feasible for someone to remain constantly logged into a browser-based chat room.

Of course this is all an opinion on my part and none of it proves that it is factually a better solution.
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Postby shooraijin » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:17 pm

Nate pretty much nailed down the main reasons why we don't use IRC. Plus, new members aren't allowed in the chat to cut down on naughty folks wreaking havoc, which is also something we can't control. So, to those of you who want us to switch to IRC, frankly, tough.

If people want to do a #caa on an IRC server, that's their business, but it would not be with our official approval.
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Postby Furen » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:48 pm

Nate (post: 1488647) wrote:I'm no computer whiz and I'm sure Mith will answer shortly, but I'm willing to bet that the problem isn't the face itself, but rather the / character. Like, for example, try typing something like "/me thinks this is strange/disturbing" or something along those lines, and it will probably act the same way.

Of course, I can't test any of this, and you may have already tried that...but you didn't specifically say you did. :p


I have not read the rest of the replys yet, but we know it's not a problem with / as we did think of that and tested it, yes sometimes the "/" does disappear, but it doesn't freeze on that character

Shooby may have the answer though...
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Postby Okami » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:35 pm

shooraijin (post: 1488794) wrote:Nate pretty much nailed down the main reasons why we don't use IRC. Plus, new members aren't allowed in the chat to cut down on naughty folks wreaking havoc, which is also something we can't control. So, to those of you who want us to switch to IRC, frankly, tough.



Yes, Nate does bring up good counterpoints. :) I can stand on both sides of this, as I've seen both the good and the bad of both. But it's as you said - there are things that are going to be uncontrollable, regardless. For now, all I'm watching for is a potential fix to these emote troubles. :sweat:
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Postby Xeno » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:44 am

shooraijin (post: 1488794) wrote:Nate pretty much nailed down the main reasons why we don't use IRC. Plus, new members aren't allowed in the chat to cut down on naughty folks wreaking havoc, which is also something we can't control. So, to those of you who want us to switch to IRC, frankly, tough.

If people want to do a #caa on an IRC server, that's their business, but it would not be with our official approval.


So out of curiosity, if a handful of us decided to make our own IRC channel (which I'm sure you'd have nothing against), would it be acceptable for us to make such a channel known amongst CAA, so long as we don't try to make it in any way appear that CAA has moved to IRC and make it very clear that we are NOT trying to make members defect, cause a schism, or anything of the kind (in fact, if something like this were to be made, participation in the CAA chat would still be highly encouraged and I know I would continue to go there frequently myself)? Just something simple like info in a signature containing server and room name (which would not be #CAA mind you)?

I ask this because the thought had come to mind as this whole conversation went on here, but again I in no way want to overstep any bounds. I know advertisement on here is viewed in a strange way, and I don't want to step on anyones toes.
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Postby mechana2015 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:53 am

As far as I know we'd prefer that it didn't feature the CAA name in any way to prevent confusion.
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Postby Xeno » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:58 am

mechana2015 (post: 1488869) wrote:As far as I know we'd prefer that it didn't feature the CAA name in any way to prevent confusion.


And it wouldn't. The only way CAA would be in any way affiliated with such a side project would be that it started from a group of people who are members here.

So for example, I would have an extra line in my sig that would read something to the extent of:
Join us at #(channel name) on irc.servername.net
For info on IRC, see this thread


The word thread would then redirect to a post in the CAA computer forum on how to configure an IRC client or use mibbit from a browser.
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Postby goldenspines » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:02 am

DoZ missed my joke, but that is okay!

After being in an IRC chat (on Christianmanga.com), I can't say I prefer it. It's not organized and rather confusing (changing nicknames is probably the dumbest idea in any chat being moderated), despite all the "better" controls. /my own opinion.

Xeno (post: 1488868) wrote:So out of curiosity, if a handful of us decided to make our own IRC channel (which I'm sure you'd have nothing against), would it be acceptable for us to make such a channel known amongst CAA, so long as we don't try to make it in any way appear that CAA has moved to IRC and make it very clear that we are NOT trying to make members defect, cause a schism, or anything of the kind (in fact, if something like this were to be made, participation in the CAA chat would still be highly encouraged and I know I would continue to go there frequently myself)? Just something simple like info in a signature containing server and room name (which would not be #CAA mind you)?

I ask this because the thought had come to mind as this whole conversation went on here, but again I in no way want to overstep any bounds. I know advertisement on here is viewed in a strange way, and I don't want to step on anyones toes.
It should be noted that even non-members can see the signatures of members. Therefore, you may have the chance of getting unwanted people in your chat.

That being said, I will wait on the official opinion (Mith's) before we say "yes" or "no".
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Postby shooraijin » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:32 am

Yes, this is a Mithrandir-level policy decision. But even if we allowed it to be publicized here, it would only be with loads of disclaimers including the facts that it is not patrolled by the CAA staff, isn't official, isn't sanctioned, and is at your own risk. Unofficial chats have existed in the past but in general petered out for one reason or another.

I don't personally have a problem against IRC and use it myself for certain tasks related to projects I work on. But we have a wide variety of users here and the chat is designed first and foremost to ensure their safety and keep deleterious elements out, even though that often entails the cost of greater restrictions. Even the best op-bot won't give you these protections on IRC; it's not designed for it.

I'll defer further comment to the "boss."
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Postby Mithrandir » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:51 pm

Hi everyone,

I see two separate issues here - the bug and the IRC server.

As for the bug, I suspect the fix in question will not be particularly difficult, honestly.

I don't really have a problem with someone else running an IRC server for CAA people, but I'd really rather it wasn't advertised on CAA. For many of the reasons listed, as well as a few others (including liability).

I tried several chat client-server setups before I decided to roll my own. Most were just too difficult for the average parent that stumbles onto the site to use. Others nearly crippled the server with their RAM requirements.

The current CAA chat works pretty well on every browser I can test - including iphones and ipads. In terms of the function the chat servers, the whole point of an embedded chat system is to keep people "physically" on the site - where conversation can spill over onto the other board.

Thanks for understanding!
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Postby Xeno » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:48 pm

Ten-four, understood. :thumb:
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Postby Furen » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:46 am

Thanks Mith ;)
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